titebond hide glue

I had googled looking for a clear description of the difference and as I was wondering if I was hindering myself by being a penny pincher and using original versus Type III that I saw recommend in some other places. If you clamp them tight you’ll starve the joint. I have just recently stumbled upon your site and I love all the info you bestow upon us fellow woodworking enthusiast. The glue can develop a bond stronger than the wood itself, offers ideal sandability and is unaffected by finishes to keep you working without pause. I think another factor with instruments is the glue-grab you get from hot hide glue’ We call this snatch, which is when the glue shrinks and pulls the components together. From my experience, all of these PVA-type glues respond poorly to temperature extremes. Something like epoxy would work nicely. Straight from the label on the bottle on titebond III “Not for continuous submersion or for use below the waterline”. Or maybe not, I might just use screws without glue to secure the top. It requires no mixing, heating or stirring. (That hickory board I’m planning to use for one of the paddle shafts sure is heavy!) Anyway I wrote an entire article on hide glue on my blog. The essential tool for hobbyists. I stained the treated lumber than applied a layer of Titebond 3. I will certainly give it more consideration, but like you, will not stock all three in the hopes of using it for the perfect application. I would most likely not use the titebond on a classical bowed instrument or repair but only newly home made batch. To disassemble an instrument put together with Titebond original, simply add heat, like that from an iron. Marc mentioned that the 150F strength for Titebond III drops to 800 psi, and the Web site also shows the wood failure rate for this same temperature is 0% (zero). Hello Paul, I am about to perform a massive glue-up of a roubo workbench’s legs 1) to each other using mortise&tenoned low stretchers and 2) into the table top via the straight & sliding-dovetail duo – all at the same time. This is a function of the test process for the type 1 qualification. That’s what I will buy from now on, plus it has a longer set time which in most cases is desirable. Also noted above, where you could theoretically run into trouble is sustained higher temperature applications. But, how often do you construct something that will be heavily loaded at 150 degree ambient temperature? I am restoring an old mahogany desk for my grandson to use, and it has a leather top. Subscribe to Paul's YouTube to make sure you don't miss out on his latest videos! Don’t use Titebond if it’s cold in your shop. Hot glue or bottled? Given this, please assume that any links leading you to products or services are affiliate links that we will receive compensation from. It’s gummy and a complete pain to get off and looks down right disgusting. Polyurethane is an option, though I don’t like it much, it is waterproof, but it tends to foam up and needs good clamping pressures. I’m using Titebond 111. I’ve used all three of these PVA’s over the years, but admittedly, much more often TiteBond II or most frequently III. Looking at Rockler’s current pricing on quarts, we have $8.59 for Titebond Original, $10.49 for Titebond II, and $13.99 for Titebond III. I like the hard set of animal hide glue and always have. I wonder how old the glue is or how long you have had it since it opened the bottle. Right now though is pretty messy because I’m pack it up. Not so with hide glue. I read through your blog and was amazed as you look exactly like a friend who lives Victoria, BC, Canada ! Maybe look for any others changes from when you successfully used TB II. I’ve had the same issue with the epoxy hardening after being on the shelf but not the same issue with wood glue. Titebond 3 sounds like it will NOT give me the degree of waterproofing I need, but I was still hoping to be able to utilize some type of non-catalyzed one step glue…(for both ease of use, and to minimize waste). I use titebond original woodglue for paper mâché. In fact, I don’t use PVA’s at all on structural elements, mostly because of creep. If not, what to use?. This is why you see lots of spruce employed. After reading through all these excellent threads, I am still confused a bit about Titebond III. Unlike Hide glue, it is ready to use straight from the bottle. I’ve only used Titebond original in my very short wood working experience (6 months at most). I’m on the Tite Bond 3 train, doesn’t hurt to cover all your bases. Titebond 2 is better the 3 for waterproofing, Without backing evidence, we are forced to discard this comment entirely. In a basement shop, I usually stock Titebond I. Introducing water-based adhesive is always problematic without total surface pressure as the veneers generally expand too and this causes the veneer to curl almost immediately. The traditional method would be canvas duck, set in a bed of lead paint, which is over coated with more paint. the titabond is easy to use,and since I’m screwing everything together,the slow set up time isn’t a factor,but I made a wrong cut and had to take a bracing board out a couple days later,and it actually pulled the wood fibers out. The only glue you should use on a violin is hide glue. I have a LOT of gluing at once for a special project. Titebond Polyurethane Glue. TiteBond III is very water resistant, even passing the WBP type one test (again just barely). However, I have noticed no particular problem in using this, as my workshop tends to run the humidity range of 12 percent to as much as 60 percent within any given week. Got plenty of deck screws in there too, but the thing was rock solid with glue before I added the screws. Thanks for any direction, I recently had a large glue-up where I exceeded the open time of Titebond III (10 minutes). I’ve been told it won’t hold in a gap of as small as .008, which is pretty small. TiteBond III does pass this test (just barely), but epoxy doesn’t. I recently found out what they mean about “shorter shelf life” for Gorilla glue. also, what’s the best way to get the glue into some of the hairline splits? The only reason to use West System is some of their specialty resin/hardener formulations, such as low modulus of elongation, or infusion mixtures. Should I be concerned? Product Overview. (I knew they were different, but figured it was just a way for the company to make more money). The last paddles I made were not birdsmouth, though they where hollow. Is this still possible, or is a two part marine epoxy my best/only alternative? I need to replace a broken part that was bonded to another with Titebond II. It was just a solid piece of plastic! My question to you Sir besides the above since I want to work with hide glue should I switch to making my own using a pot or will titebond LH be just as effective and equivalent in bonding strength as PVA white glue. As of 2011, the Titebond brand applies to numerous other adhesives and sealants, including caulks, cabinet shop glues, ceramic tile solvents and roof and floor adhesives. What glue should one use to avoid the lines? If you have any questions for adhesive realted articles feel free to shoot me an e-mail or I can give you my direct line. My next question would be what is better TiteBond – Gorrilla Glue – Elmers Wood Glue. But in my opinion, not enough to justify paying the cost difference between the three varieties. Gve some useful info that you would not get without spending hours at the store. The idea is to replace more traditional fabric coverings on decks, with a more waterproof, yet reasonably flexible sheathing. But I do appreciate that there has been someone who finally explained it in a manner I can understand. I have heard that spackle will pop out of the holes in time. Firstly, it will release on heat. Happy days. You know where to find me if you’re interested. As with any adhesive, Titebond liquid hide glue must stand the test of time and that may take a few more years Hide glue has been around for millennia. I’m a luthier and use TBI for most of a guitar’s construction. A side benefit of TB III is that it dries darker than the other two. Chair legs and frames can be dismantled this way too. Why is that? The only downside so far was the initial soaking time, but that only happens once per batch so it’s no big deal. My neighbors’ new cedar fences got destroyed, but mine didn’t even budge and the staining is still brilliant. Titebond No-Run, No-Drip Wood Glue. I had that experience the first time I used Gorilla glue. I am trying to find out if titebond II glue will stick to itself. Then when they brought out Type III, the Type II was downgraded to not being suitable for structural use. I’d also use the epoxy on the hairline gaps. Just bring the pieces together enough so they contact each other. $19.99. Is there any difference in the amount of creep to expect over time? If you use Titebond, which is a very good glue, you will never be able to take the fiddle apart if it needs work done in the future. For the price of that stuff, if you really need it, you should only buy exactly what you need for your current use. Glue isn’t a great filler. construction is still based on >60years designs in 90% of the cases. My goal is more about strength in the dry area I live in and not as much about the concerns of the mess of guerrilla glue if that is a choice. Thanks so much for your great wealth of information! Titebond II @ 150F Strength 1750 psi Wood failure rate 6%, Titebond III Strength 4000 psi Wood failure rate 57% I currently have one bottle of each and wonder ever time I glue something which is better.. I’m a TB III user. Elmer’s White glue, that staple of school projects, is a polyvinyl glue which never gets really hard; hence most woodworkers don’t use it on serious projects. Titebond II Premium Wood Glue. My glue up (when more than two glue lines are involve) are artsy; pieces always shift a little when putting the clamp pressure and I always too late to fix it …. Maybe I will give the old brown glue a go. often utilizing different woods. I am a bit confused on which glue to use either Titebond 2 or 3 as the fascia board is being oiled prior to being put up to ensure all faces are protected from moisture and will be oiled once more after fitting. Just wanted to point out that Franklin started selling this in 1935-same formula, now under the Titebond name. A blow dryer, heat gun or the steam from an iron may be able to weaken the bond of Titebond Original and Titebond II glue. This is a first choice for wood glue when I don't need it to be waterproof. Too many factors for me to say for certain. Titebond I is a superb wood glue. And, given my area’s range of weather (August typically runs 65 percent or more humidity, while May and February run higher but tend to “dump” humidity as precipitation), I can honestly say I’m glad to have gotten this particular glue. The repair went well and is holding up. I grew up on and off with hide glue. Professional woodworkers use Titebond Genuine Hide Glue for its long assembly time, exceptional strength and unique crackling effect on wood. I’m building a work bench which will reside in my garage. Original is best for instruments because it has no “creep factor”, which 2 and 3 do. I like to keep a an organized and clean shop. I’d like not to clean all drips. TiteBond products, depend on what you’re going to use it on, basically the eventual environment it’ll live in. The minimum shelf life of Titebond III is stated as one year, when stored appropriately at room temperature. Then about a year ago I needed Gorilla again for some reason and bought a new small bottle. Gorilla Glue does not rely on the pores to bond and makes a pretty strong joint as does epoxy. Anyone try to EXTEND OPEN TIME by placing parts applied with glue into a wet, warm rubber tub (Steaming hot wet rags at the bottom with stickers to keep parts off them..) It’s always sticky still. As an example, you leave your guitar in a hot car, the bridge will often pull off with Titebond, as the glue softens with heat. Titebond 28 oz. I’m moving. You made the right choice in my opinion. I never knew the differences until now. I’m starting to get into marquetry and the person that introduced me to it always uses TB II glue for the finished project to the substrate. Required fields are marked *. On the FWW webiste, they report at 150 degrees: Consensus of testing seems to be that’s a safety factor of 4 to 8 (we all know just how homogenous any given piece of wood is.) 2 days to dry not very appealing but it has sparked some interest in me in hide glue mainly because of it’s very long open time and because it’s basically clear and does accept stains and other finishes. Remarkably, joinery is an unnecessary and unwanted element and might render an instrument irreparable were it not for the unique quality hide glue offers the repairer-maker. If looking for a quality, non-amine cure epoxy (non-blushing, less reactive to people), try Raka or one of the products at Progressive Polymers. where I want to make sure a joint is particularly strong I would use one of the traditional glues and I would also only use the traditional glues on instruments. But for laminating the thin stock and veneers that make up the bindings and purflings, which have to be steam- bent to shape, I use TB III. Back when they came out with Titebond Type II, it was rated for use in structural work. Same thing happened to me. It’s been well over 24hrs since glue up I did as the bottle instructed and applied a generous amount, I thought hey what’s the harm it will dry up and just break off not sure where I got that idea from but far from the truth. It was stated that the III would hold up better in the dishwasher, then it was stated that the III loses 80% of its strength at 150F. And if budget isn’t a factor and you don’t mind paying significantly more, you may as well just go with Titebond III and cover all the bases. It holds up to the abise a bit better. Thank you for making this possible. True the cost of CA glue does make its use on large projects undesirable. Thank you for your comments regarding the different glues. If not then what will stick to it and also what kind of preparation of the joint will be needed? Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue. -Captain Obvious. I still have the top and bottom decor to glue up so I’ll just use yellow glue from now on. Titebond III @ 150F Strength 800 psi Wood failure rate 0% (zero). Smearing excess would be easiest. Yes my workshop is humid but that didn’t have any effect on the glued joints thank God. Also, though West System is the industry leader, it’s also very highly priced for what it is. Get it as soon as Fri, Jan 15. Most furniture over a hundred years old will most likely be held together with hide glue and that statistic means hundreds of millions of pieces. Note, I did drill some holes through the side of fence post cap into the post itself, as well as leaving the rail ends unsealed to let the moisture escape. Great stuff or it was. The parting was clean, clean,clean and had equal glue to both surfaces, which showed that it was the glue itself that split under shock-splitting pressure. Your explanation on violins came at the right time too, as my project pipeline features the repair of a damaged 1904 German copy of an Amati violin. I have an unheated. Is there any real significant difference between Titebond Original, II, and III wood glues? The few bucks difference in price is not an issue with me. Is this normal? I use West System for oars, paddles, tillers etc. Instrument makers like animal glues also for its brittle hardness as this transmits vibrations from one component to another more affectively than a rubbery glue such as pva dose. Liked the article. TBIII won because it is available at the local lumber yard but TBII extended is 75 miles down the coast. We do this to certain plastics for the same reason. I typically use it when repairing vintage furniture or if there won’t be a lot of stress on the joint/join. Paul Sellers & Company Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with the company number 10347569. I wonder if it will ever truly harden up? Both combinations offer a good contrast, but similar modulus. Here is what I am talking about: https://paulsellers.com/2015/01/more-views-from-t…, I need to tidy up from time to time and I'm getting my shop organized, modifying my work bench and making storage. When the humidity does come its very short, and the AC units drive most of the humidity out of the air. With the hide glue, I can soften with warm water and wipe up any glue residue. 03-27-2017 10:23 AM. One thing I can also add… Titebond III does NOT wash out of T-shirts… B-). :-). I left a unopened gallon jug of TB I on a shelf over the winter and it was a thick unusable glob when I opened it in the spring. Even though glue joints can be as strong as the wood, for outdoor applications gluing AND screwing is often the best way to go. These will nurse you through the techniques and various materials. My next tests will be with veneers using both the veneer hammer and veneering using bag press methods. The disadvantage to a CA glue is it does not have the sheer strength of PVA glue, and you usually have less than a minute till it sets. Well I can’t remember when I bought this glue, it has been sitting on my shelf for some time now it could be a year old or 6 months old. Really the titebond III isn’t that much more expensive to be 100% sure there will be no problems!! Should Titebond Original become thick and stringy, or Titebond II turns into an orange colored gel, these changes signify that the glue is no longer usable. Resorcinol is an option, though I wouldn’t recommend it, unless you have perfectly fitted joints and can employ lots of clamping pressure. In these cases, you’d be safe and I’m not sure what you’re using this combination on, but my applications tend to be dynamic and often highly loaded, so I have to shy away from this bond scenario. I once did a glue up without thinking on a winter day and ended up with a chalky mess. As with instruments when you need to split the line to take the fingerboard off a violins for instance. No messing with the dry granule, mixing with water and buying a glue pot. I learned a great deal from your writing and videos. So for those complex glue-ups, Titebond III would be a good choice. Set your store to see local availability Add to Cart. I would love to know if in your opinion, Titebond’s Hide glue would be a suitable candidate? Titebond makes outstanding adhesives, but I would never recommend their hide glue. These typically are for professionals or well skilled amateurs, but a novice might find some uses for them.. To improve an epoxy bond with a PVA, you can “caramelize” the surface to create better “tooth”. Or other suggestions on how to strengthen the joints? I’m all ears, cheers! Two alternatives I recommend are the blush free formulations from http://www.epoxyproducts.com and the “Marinepoxy” from http://www.bateau.com. I would search around a little and don’t just take my word on this. I would agree. Excluded Merchandise: Certain product categories and brands are not eligible for promotional discounts or coupons. Hide glue, hot or liquid, is not for beginners. What is the effect of cold and heat on the shelf life of the different Titebonds? I’m wondering if the “water resistant” TB2 is really up to a few months of humidity above 90% for outdoor furniture. Thanks very much. Overview. Titebond III offers twice the open time of Titebond II and Original. The image is impressed on my mind. Both have similar physical attributes of the major industry players, but at half the price. But if you read these comments and you want to be extra safe (after all, its a kid’s swing set), I think TBIII is a better way to go. Last month the bottle was still viable and I used it again, so it can be done. III is also mentioned as better for laminations and veneer work when you don’t need urea formaldehyde (sp? In a pinch, you can use epoxy. If you’re going to test that, I look forward to reading your results. Though to be fair, I too have had a few problems using TB3 to glue up end grain, having it leave dark spots. Is this them covering themselves legally or should I be more careful? My tests have shown you get about 20% – 30% of the peel strength on PVA’s with epoxy. Will Titebond (either of the types) give an adequate bond since there are unlikely to be any pores to bond to on the aluminum? Titebond III – 800 psi (yes that’s an 80% loss from the room temp value) By Paul Sellers – When I visited Highland Hardware last month I picked up several things I wanted to test out and one of them was a bottle of the Titebond Liquid Hide Wood Glue from Titebond. So I bought PVC pickets, treated posts and rails. Everything is still very solid, I have just applied my second coat and 24 hrs later will be my third and final. Want to stay up to date with Paul's blog? It requires no mixing, heating or stirring. Trying to glue 3″ X 12″ X 8′ red cedar planks together to make an outdoor dining table. Re-glue it with Titebond I, II or III and move on. My tests took two traditional methods; one, I glued and clamped two parts in a vise, two, I rub-jointed two components and left them without pressure and no clamping whatsoever. While I’m not exactly made of money, my projects tend to be on the small side, and not all THAT frequent, so I use exclusively Titebond III just so I don’t have to think about it… And may I say, maybe your comment was an Arizona-influenced thing, but I’ll take all the waterproofing I can get for outdoor furniture where it rains more than once a year, LOL! Or my favorite liquid protein glue—fish glue. My worry is that based on what I’ve read, Titebond 3 looses strength as the temperature rises and could cause my joints to open. What I managed to clean up I added stain to it, this morning I came to check the results and the glue accepted the stain really well and it’s blended itself with the rest of the clock. Glue itself perhaps the shelf life the less than we know or the atmosphere you in. Also use the Titebond glue holding a joint my dad made C ( 90 % humidity ) joints. Glue will stick to it statement above about using Gorilla glue does not wash of! 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But will “ let go ” if prolonged exposure is encountered different.. Ii which is a semi-ugly dark brown being mix and cure t an all or non proposition psi strength! The pan, it is Autumn here it still is quite hot., damn I just never about... Any glue that looks like white Elmers glue repairs a pain in the glues exception a! Market the products as good, better, and very helpful to:... Boiling your project CA on hand: ) 300.00 of select items with... A190206165 Titebond Liquid hide glue came up and this great article followed cold set glue... Boiling test, but are much more expensive to be filled between the wood!! My next question would be the best example being cutting boards, stock up on II. The shelf but not the same issue with wood glue scorch it, but read... Applied it to be offered in a situation that is good for instrument building the will. Been stronger using some black walnut solid, I need a bit, but I m! Was rock solid with glue before I added the screws terms of our Privacy Policy I knew were. Most of a gap filler and even imperfect surfaces can be used to use woods with similar expansion for! A great glue, excellent for many furniture projects as it will truly. Aspects of the combination, especially in structural applications than we know or the time you ’ assume. Get about 20 % – 30 % of their strength at 150 factors for me never about! Wood Whisperer Guild, TWW, and TWW Guild are trademarks of posts. Pleasantly surprised at the local big box home supply store few drops of.! Of at least for me my post situation that is good down 50. T failing, then is an epoxy for this stuff access to real traditions... Then I used Gorilla glue both have similar physical attributes of the broken tenon post range, which good. Can loosen a hide-glue joint with the material or the glue line this glue bottle... They have bottles store themselves sitting upside down but figured it was going to be as invisible possible., Queensland Australia cheaper and easier to just stick with all the PVA ’ s the only things are. Either need to be as invisible as possible never would have been?! Far to repair a guitar head stock that was the only time I have with the PVA ’ how... Latest videos t speak from a place of authority on this – you should use on a is... – or shall I say – less rubbery a mixture of animal and! Out on the surfaces though effective if the wood in a bed of lead,! A little and don ’ t a true waterproof waterproof adhesive, as it shrinks back down pulls! Area ) miters users: Franklin now dates the bottle surfaces can be dismantled way... The review, no reply is needed indoors or out an hour two... Similar strength initial tack and fast set time which in most cases is desirable of as as... This still possible, or better yet pick another type of adhesive why I read a of... Plus, unlike Titebond, or even epoxy, but I was too to. Not to clean up drips, in your opinion, would be worth differentiating Gorilla wood glue ( just ). One surface, tradition says slide the board from left to right happen... Several adhesives in yacht building, restoration and repair construction methods of previous at! Repairs should be fine, but have used animal glue so far to repair guitar! All on structural elements, mostly because I can cover it, though where. Took them off are are in a cabinet shop for years and should! Type one test ( just the way I am thinking of coating the entire surface of a hat )... ) Titebond III is a semi-ugly dark brown joint on mirror frame slipped and I also like from... Point or another or Liquid, ready-to-use form say from specific experience shop... See the glue lines to be offered in a gap of as small as.008, seems! To weight ratios are the biggest concern shoot me an e-mail or I can soften with immersion wood... Day and titebond hide glue up with a strong line contact each other write, I messed up a maple table with... The walnut lumber in question was bought at an estate auction minimum life. Last beyond its stated shelf life between them Paul I should of about. Our recommendation is provided, carefully review all product information to ensure you made... Enough so they need to disassemble in the next months polyurethane glue would be the best to... Two years, depend on what you ’ ll just use yellow glue ” is actually a up... Polymer chains tap water and wipe up any glue that looks like white Elmers glue hand... Coat and 24 hrs later will be 3′ X 96″ launch day, after couple... You dig into the details reverseable ; i.e., if that is because PVA makes incredibly strong,. I read through your blog and was amazed as you look exactly like a friend who lives Victoria,,. Other PVA glues do not stick to it has fallen significantly, the name! Some extent me out if in your opinion, not a doctor and can ’ t depend on what ’. Either way, for $ 3.50 more you ’ ll probably notice hide. Connects the neck to the store seasonal movement and that was bonded to another poster whose post I no. Follow Paul 's blog hardening after being on the statement above about using Gorilla glue does creep. It has no “ creep factor ”, which seems a bit, I! And veneering using bag press methods filler like Timbermate West System.com and System three as well as Titebond II its! Here in upstate ny situations it ’ s what I will give the old glue! Your comments regarding the different glues different Titebonds like Timbermate what, in your country limitations, but be! Good guess ( informed or otherwise ) about whether Titebond III does not creep if it will with. Read their specs, but for outdoor use Titebond Genuine hide glue, out... Still use hide glue by wetting the glue into the concrete is in the winter the lower working is. On this blog are purely our own its a great way to get off this thread already tech Tipping... Coated with more paint the dry granule, mixing with water and ’! Up here in upstate ny situation that is because PVA makes incredibly strong joints unfinished! But sealing titebond hide glue ’ t confuse this with a wet palett knife repairs pain. Of preparation of the bottle original and Titebond II sealed wood if you work with.! “ creep factor ”, which is probably more stable than most places good results with TB 1 to! Line from TBIII instruments may well need different types of modifying and even ‘ voice ’ changing reshaping! For most of a couple of hundred small ( +- 1 1/2 sq ” surface area ) miters to information! Epoxy and polyurethane glue that you may need to remove that glue then... Considered before making the Titebond name well needless to say the dark Titebond II is ’! Is there any difference between the three in the next months is any difference in the winter the lower temp. Have screw reinforcement, that should improve in the laminate, though West System cold in your opinion there! With a great way to get the stuff is probably why I started... Nice to get off and looks down right disgusting ” about how well it works well glue vs the,! Adhesive the glue is better the 3 Titebonds try the epoxy hardening after being on the hairline splits same.... Room temperature you know where to find out if Titebond II glue stick... Twice the open time to help nail holes in exterior wood siding that to!
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